Sasha Grey: 'I wanted porn to be more creative'
09:55 AM PT, Jan 9 2009
Mark Spiegler is among the best known talent agents in the adult business.
He is by his own description a legal pimp. He supplies women actresses to adult
movies. Covering the Adult Entertainment Expo for a decade I have had many
chances to meet and interview Spiegler. But only once has he called me to speak
about one of his clients. That was two years ago and the client was an 18-year-old named Sasha Grey.
Spiegler insisted Grey was going to be the biggest star he had ever come
across. Two years later she is the name who most comes up when discussing stars who are transforming the adult industry. Interestingly, our first interview did
not go well. It was brief and awkward. She just seemed very young to me and I
did not see the spark behind all the excitement she was even then generating. In
fact, John Stagliano had already cast her in the sequel to his successful
"Fashionistas" film. For 2009 she is in the "Pirates" sequel that is the film that
has hoarded so may of the AVN nominations this year.
Among Grey's more recent accomplishments are being cast in a Steven
Soderbergh film and being put on the Rolling Stone annual Hot List. Grey has
become such a star these days that, since I did not plan in advance, her schedule was
too full yesterday and I was told she had no time for an interview with me. But
Grey amazingly recognized me from our brief and awkward conversation of a couple
years ago and called me over to speak:
Richard Abowitz: Two years ago Mark Spiegler told me I had to interview you because you were going to be a huge star.
Sasha Grey: I remember that actually. I remember we met briefly but did not get a chance to speak.
Abowitz: Well, we have a lot more to talk about now. Are you surprised how quickly all of this has happened for you?
Grey: I am surprised. I got into this business just wanting to make a change. I did not think my ideals would reach that far. I did not have any self doubt. But I did not think on my own I could have such an impact in such a short amount of time.
Abowitz: How has your work impacted your private life?
Grey: My fiance is a photographer and I have made him my photographer. I kind of stole him. It is pretty awesome because we get to work together a lot now. We have similar artistic interests; we have a similar vision, and we work well together. But as far as the relationship, I think the first three months are the hardest. You learn so much about yourself in such a short amount of time. Obviously, jealousy is part of it. It is more the type of sex that you get to do in films I would like to have in my private life, but I don't have the money for even the gear for some of the stuff I do on film. I am not going to invest my money in that. I am going to invest my money in my own goals.
Abowitz: You are still only 20. What are your goals?
Grey: My goal right now is to continue to brand myself. I work on my website. I want to direct. I have a feature I really I want to come out of the gate with and that is my goal right now.
Abowitz: Next year I'll ask you if alcohol tastes like you expected it to. Do you find in the industry when it comes to getting opportunities to direct that your age is a barrier?
Grey: Absolutely. My age and my gender. Inside and outside. I wish they would say it to my face but they don't. I hear things said behind my back and I wish they would say it to my face.
Abowitz: Do you have any sense of what it is about you that in an industry of people fighting for the spotlight has made you such a magnet for attention?
Grey: It is hard to answer that without sounding pretentious and stuck up. I think the difference with me is that I sought my way into this industry. I had a goal. I think that has made me a lot different. I did not get into this through a friend, or because I was a stripper or because I wanted to pay college tuition. That and I am completely into film, music and art. I am into art house films.
Abowitz: OK, outside adult what art have you been enjoying?
Grey: I've been listening to a lot of black metal. For the past month I have been reading nothing but my script. I am on the fourth draft of it. Movies: I really loved "The Wrestler." It was incredibly intense to see him so vulnerable. I love when an actor does that. I did not like some of the dialogue. But I felt something that night.
Abowitz: Didn't you just do a mainstream film? Was that one of your goals?
Grey: No. I keep getting asked that question and it is a bit annoying. Stephen was brilliant. But unfortunately I can't really talk about it. You know how a lot of people make art you admire but you never want to meet them. But Soderbergh far surpassed my expectations. I have a huge respect for him. He is very focused on process and not just the outcome and getting there is the exciting part for me as well. I guess most people know that the movie is about a $10,000-a-night escort and how she perceives herself to be in control of her life.
Abowitz: Was it an acting challenge for you?
Grey: I am sorry, I can't answer that part. But as far as trying to get into mainstream that is a silly idea. I got into porn because I wanted to get into porn. I did eight months of research before I entered the industry. And, as I told you before, I entered porn because I thought there was a void -- a lack of quality production. You see the same thing over and over and there was just so much titillation missing from porn. I really wanted to see two people perform like they are into each other. I want to see the titillation. I wanted porn to be more creative.
Photo credit: Sarah Gerke
Richard Abowitz: Two years ago Mark Spiegler told me I had to interview you because you were going to be a huge star.
Sasha Grey: I remember that actually. I remember we met briefly but did not get a chance to speak.
Abowitz: Well, we have a lot more to talk about now. Are you surprised how quickly all of this has happened for you?
Grey: I am surprised. I got into this business just wanting to make a change. I did not think my ideals would reach that far. I did not have any self doubt. But I did not think on my own I could have such an impact in such a short amount of time.
Abowitz: How has your work impacted your private life?
Grey: My fiance is a photographer and I have made him my photographer. I kind of stole him. It is pretty awesome because we get to work together a lot now. We have similar artistic interests; we have a similar vision, and we work well together. But as far as the relationship, I think the first three months are the hardest. You learn so much about yourself in such a short amount of time. Obviously, jealousy is part of it. It is more the type of sex that you get to do in films I would like to have in my private life, but I don't have the money for even the gear for some of the stuff I do on film. I am not going to invest my money in that. I am going to invest my money in my own goals.
Abowitz: You are still only 20. What are your goals?
Grey: My goal right now is to continue to brand myself. I work on my website. I want to direct. I have a feature I really I want to come out of the gate with and that is my goal right now.
Abowitz: Next year I'll ask you if alcohol tastes like you expected it to. Do you find in the industry when it comes to getting opportunities to direct that your age is a barrier?
Grey: Absolutely. My age and my gender. Inside and outside. I wish they would say it to my face but they don't. I hear things said behind my back and I wish they would say it to my face.
Abowitz: Do you have any sense of what it is about you that in an industry of people fighting for the spotlight has made you such a magnet for attention?
Grey: It is hard to answer that without sounding pretentious and stuck up. I think the difference with me is that I sought my way into this industry. I had a goal. I think that has made me a lot different. I did not get into this through a friend, or because I was a stripper or because I wanted to pay college tuition. That and I am completely into film, music and art. I am into art house films.
Abowitz: OK, outside adult what art have you been enjoying?
Grey: I've been listening to a lot of black metal. For the past month I have been reading nothing but my script. I am on the fourth draft of it. Movies: I really loved "The Wrestler." It was incredibly intense to see him so vulnerable. I love when an actor does that. I did not like some of the dialogue. But I felt something that night.
Abowitz: Didn't you just do a mainstream film? Was that one of your goals?
Grey: No. I keep getting asked that question and it is a bit annoying. Stephen was brilliant. But unfortunately I can't really talk about it. You know how a lot of people make art you admire but you never want to meet them. But Soderbergh far surpassed my expectations. I have a huge respect for him. He is very focused on process and not just the outcome and getting there is the exciting part for me as well. I guess most people know that the movie is about a $10,000-a-night escort and how she perceives herself to be in control of her life.
Abowitz: Was it an acting challenge for you?
Grey: I am sorry, I can't answer that part. But as far as trying to get into mainstream that is a silly idea. I got into porn because I wanted to get into porn. I did eight months of research before I entered the industry. And, as I told you before, I entered porn because I thought there was a void -- a lack of quality production. You see the same thing over and over and there was just so much titillation missing from porn. I really wanted to see two people perform like they are into each other. I want to see the titillation. I wanted porn to be more creative.
Photo credit: Sarah Gerke
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You are a lucky, lucky man Richard, what a job you have!
Posted by: Jim W | January 09, 2009 at 12:15 PM
i still haven't seen the original pirates movie
Posted by: phred | January 09, 2009 at 01:19 PM
"transforming the adult industry" into a breeding ground and promo board for abuse and degradation! do porn movies really have to involve the obscene and disgusting acts that this girl is famous for? it will soon be commonplace for men to expect their own partners to engage in such acts, and it won't be long before the girls who have been brought up in a society where these acts are portrayed as sexy and erotic, are doing them too! and what then? what will be the next step toward making porn "more creative" ??
Posted by: SimPrincess | January 09, 2009 at 05:57 PM
I have obviously never seen one of her movies. But having talked to her twice now I can say she is doing exactly what she wants to do with her life and her sexuality. There is no pimp behind this woman.
I have covered this convention for ten years and never felt the need to watch an adult film. The adult star I am closest to refers to what they do as stunt sex. And, that sounds right. But do you think that people will really expect this activity in their lives because it was in a porn movie? I mean, we get that James Bond or Bruce Willis are doing movies that are not realistic. Does making the topic sex make the stunts more influential than the violence of a mainstream film (again, I don't watch a lot of mainstream movies either).
I talked with Grey for a few minutes after the official interview and she comes across as very happy and doing the sort of movies she wants to make to express herself. I think her audience should wonder why they want to see such things rather than be hostile to her for desiring to create films the way she wants to make them. Yrs., Richard Abowitz
Posted by: Richard Abowitz | January 09, 2009 at 06:06 PM
1. Yes I honestly believe that people will begin to expect this activity in their day to day lives because the media has such a massive input! Some men already expect simillar acts. I can't go into detail for obvious reasons. Kids mimic violence in movies and even what they hear in music such as gangster rap, so what's the difference here?
2. I never said she was under any body elses influence, or being pressured into doing anything that she did not want to do - I only questioned why on earth she wants to do these things. And if the reason is that these obscene acts are what sexually excites her then so be it, do it in your personal life. Do so many young impressionable minds have to be subjected to it at the same time? And do men need the bizzarre idea that these acts are ok, put into their minds?
3. I'd be curious as to an answer to my question, Mr Abowitz - what is the next step toward making porno "more creative" now that it has become what it is? Next time you bump into Grey, you might ask her for me! Things have really taken off for her recently (probably in a much healthier way than she started out, i.e. running her own companies, agency, etc [not really sure of the details]) but while her porn carreer may slowly fizzle out, the newcomers to the porn industry are expected to push the envelope that little bit further than she did - I am genuinely curious! What on earth is next?
4. I'm not hostile to her. I have seen her clips on YouTube and other places and I am surprised at how intelligent and well spoken she is. She seems cultured and mature. I am hostile at what she is doing though.
There is no doubt in my mind that it is wrong.
Posted by: SimPrincess | January 09, 2009 at 07:08 PM
Simprincess is entitled to her opinions but if consenting adults want to engage in sex acts before a camera and similarly consenting adults pay (or watch free in the majority of the time, thank you Internet!) to watch said acts, who is harmed? Evidently,Ms. Simprincess is because "men will expect similar acts" from her. Oh, the outrage! Sounds like Ms. Sim needs to be more selective in her dating practices: I suspect LDS websites or the like can set her up with a like-minded prude, porn is here to stay.
Posted by: shiny | January 12, 2009 at 12:58 PM
many of the acts contained in modern porn are not actually sexual, is what i'm getting at, shiny.
i have no problem with porn, or the fact that it is here to stay - in fact my partner and i enjoy pornography together, but we both agree (and he is a man, and VERY fond of pornography) that a lot of modern porn is no longer about sexuality or sex! much of mainstream porn is about the degradation and humiliation of the women involved - however consenting or popular it is, doesnt take from the fact that it amounts to abuse on film. i've been a victim of abuse, and it is very similar to what we watch on screen in adult movies. so the term 'prude' is inappropriate, and quite insulting.
it is very difficult to argue my point without being allowed to use examples (for obvious reasons) but the fact that 'hardcore' is no longer enough, and is now being replaced by 'supercore' says a lot. my point was not that porn should be outlawed or stopped, only that if this is what porn has 'progressed' to, then what's the next progression?
Posted by: SimPrincess | January 13, 2009 at 02:44 PM
I've seen the evolution of porn from the 80's when I was a boy and watched a porn so I could figure out what to do with a woman, till now.
I love Porn! and I love Sasha Grey as she is extremely hot. BUT one would have to be a bit close-minded to not see what simprincess is talking about.
I worry that kids will start to expect and mimic the fetish forms of porn and we'll have teenagers fake choking eachother etc.
Thier is nothing wrong with BDSM, I love it and practice it, BUT I worry that BDSM and other fetish styles will be considered the norm and young adults will get the wrong idea. A Sub has to consent to giving her submission and that isn't covered in the films.
This is not a black or white issue, there is allot of Grey here.
Sasha I love you baby!
Posted by: jameshowlett | January 13, 2009 at 02:44 PM
I would like to know the answer to Simprincess question too? I have that question myself and wonder where the limits will end?
To be clear, I work in the industry,I love it and enjoy many aspects of the type of sex Sasha is into.
The question is, when alternative becomes mainstream, whats the alternative?
I have no idea of the answer, but it concerns me for future generations.Will a 14-15 year old boy get a hold of Sasha tape(if he was so lucky) and think that the girl in his class that he is taking out next week will want him to do the thing Sasha wants? Thats is what concerns me.
Perhaps a tutorial would be welcome so kids don't think ALL woman want to be tied up and slapped around as you do them.
Posted by: Jameshowlett | January 13, 2009 at 02:53 PM
This woman is unknown to me. I applaud her self confidence and straightforward style. We are finally entering a time when sincerity is respected and recognized as one of life's most important virtues.
There are problems all around, but today's young people are better at making and correcting mistakes than we ever were because they are not listening to adults who don't know.
Posted by: Robert Cecil Hanna | January 14, 2009 at 09:40 PM
I have only been made aware of Sasha recently when visiting the porn store and reading about her. I think she is a revelation, she is intelligent and knows what she wants. The key to her impact, apart from here amazing body, is her youth and fierce committment to her values, strong strident values impossible to dismiss,from a young and perhaps inexperienced person. To this regard I note the controversy surrounding her presentation in media (eg Tyra Banks show). As an Australian, looking from the outside in, I find the scandal symptomatic of the major clashes of American culture, those who want to hold back reality (if not personal liberty & expression) often referred to as the conservative or religious right, and those who want to freely participate in society and enjoy the freedom democracies provide, often referred to as liberals.
I'm sure there is a doctorite in all of this current discussion/debate based on the injection of Sasha into mainstream porn; herself, her effect and impact on broader western sexual behaviour. Sasha is an innovator and I wonder her overall impact. Sasha is young and there's a long way to go.
I salute you Sasha, all power to you. Sincerely, James
Posted by: James Miller (Aust) | January 15, 2009 at 08:15 PM
I see no validity to the theory that Saha's type of BDSM porn will make her type of sex what is expected of a woman in modern society, BDSM is well-known to be an alternative to regular sex, and her influence won't change that. But I do applaud her raising questions about what turns people on and makes for thrilling sexual experiences in spite of what is considered "normal" and her kind of sex personally turns me on immensely- the idea of power and control over someone and their consent to being physically hurt makes for sensational excitement for me, as does the ideas of infusing sexuality with anger and the scales of balance of power between two people. I think it is wonderful that these ideas can unapologetically be infused into porn, especially from such an intelligent and socially/artistically aware woman, and can make porn so much more powerful, able to incite euphoric excitement!
Posted by: Alexander Ghali | March 18, 2009 at 04:10 PM