Born again, Vegas style
11:56 AM PT, Jan 7 2008
I met Heather Veitch and Annie Lobert at the Cheesecake Factory, across from the Green Valley Ranch casino. We had to wait for a booth because Lobert's stories about her years working as an escort in the Vegas resort corridor can get graphic.
Many years ago Veitch used to be a stripper in Vegas. Now both women are Christian activists trying to reach out to women in the Las Vegas adult industry.
They are in the midst of gearing up for Adult Entertainment Expo, the biggest adult industry convention in the country, which takes place in Vegas every January. This convention includes the adult movie version of the Oscars, the AVN Awards.
I discovered the duo through a series of popular YouTube videos they did called "Saving Sex City." Episode 3 features the two walking the Strip as showgirls carrying placards with Christian messages.
Even before uniting for the video series, Veitch received a lot of media attention. She thinks it is because she doesn't look like your typical Christian preacher. In fact, her look has been a major factor, she says, in the Christian community being slower than the worldly people of Vegas to accept her.
One Vegas topless bar allows Veitch to come at night to buy lap dances and use the time to talk to the dancers about Jesus. I have been invited along for a future trip and am very curious to see how that works out. Veitch says she has received almost no hostility from the people she is trying to reach in Vegas, even those not at all interested in her message.
On the other hand, selling her fellow Christians on her project has been difficult. Veitch has found that some churches are not interested in populating congregations with strippers she has invited to services. And then it always comes back to her look. Veitch says, "The Christian community can be very judgmental. But we think our look lets girls in the industry identify with us."
For the upcoming 40,000-strong Adult Entertainment Expo, Veitch and Lobert will be working the convention floor, handing out cards and delivering their message to whoever will listen. Veitch's current boyfriend is not happy because this means she will be among all the male fans of porn at the convention as well as the men who work in that industry. The boyfriend called during our lunch to make that point again. Veitch was not convinced. She still will be at Adult Entertainment Expo, working with Lobert.
To Veitch, her need to be at the huge porn convention is clear. She explained after getting off the phone with her boyfriend: "To me, I am used to the attention because I come from that industry. For him, it is hard because I have had several guy porn stars who are attractive come up to me and want to make films. But I am the untouchable one there. I look like those girls, but they can't see me naked. Now I am using my body to advertise for God. So to me it is not bad."
And it is instructive to note that the media love Veitch's look as well. Even before the "Saving Sex City" videos, Veitch had already become a media magnet, having done every show from "Geraldo" to "The 700 Club." A documentary on Veitch, "Pussycat Preacher," became available for free download last week. Lobert's media profile before the "Saving Sex City" videos had been slightly lower. But by calling the church group she formed "Hookers for Jesus," Lobert admits she pretty much guaranteed that everyone who hears the name remembers it. Lobert says:
"I picked that name because it is catchy. Most Christians might think I am selling my body. But I say that because I am trying to hook people on Jesus. I hook them for Jesus. I go into the casinos and I sit at the bar while the girls are selling their bodies and I talk to them."
Asked how she can tell the hookers from the tourists, Lobert says, "I know. I just watch and I know. I know because I have been there. I share my story with them and give them my card and invite them to church."
(Annie Lobert and Heather Veitch photo by Sarah Gerke)
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I wanted to know more about the color purple essay. Can you please send me some info.
Posted by: madalyn solano | January 07, 2008 at 08:10 PM
I THINK THIS IS WONDERFUL. AS CHRISTIANS WE ARE CALLED TO PREACH THE GOOD NEWS OF THE GOSPEL TO ALL, NOT JUST PEOPLE YOU LIKE, OR FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH. MANY OF US SAY WE WANT THE WORLD TO BE EVANGELIZED, BUT WE DON'T WANT TO DO IT OURSELVES, LET ALONE INTERACT WITH PEOPLE WHO MAY SEEM TO BE UNDESIRABLE. WELL THESE YOUNG WOMEN ARE DOING JUST THAT AND I HOPE YOU CAN GET THIS MESSAGE OF SUPPORT TO THEM. WHEN JESUS WALKED THIS EARTH HE WAS WITH THE PROSTITUTES, CROOKS AND DREGS OF SOCIETY FOR THE VERY PURPOSE OF BRINGING THEM TO THE LIGHT. I DON'T WANT TO GO ON AND ON ,BUT I AM SO PROUD OF THESE WOMEN AND I PRAY FOR THEIR SAFETY AS THEY GO INTO THIS INDUSTRY TO HELP BRING AN ETERNAL CHANGE IN THE LIVES OF THESE FOLKS. THIS IS A BILLION DOLLAR A YEAR INDUSTRY AND THE DEVIL HAS A MIGHTY STRONGHOLD ON IT, BUT ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE WITH GOD. I HAVE BEEN WRESTLING WITH THE IDEA OF TALKING TO A FEW WOMEN I SEE QUITE OFTEN WHILE ON THE WAY TO WORK AND ON MY RIDE HOME. THEY ARE ON THE STREET CORNERS AND I KNOW THEY NEED HELP. I HAVE BEEN A COWARD, BUT I'M ASKING GOD TO GIVE ME THE COURAGE AND BOLDNESS TO APPROACH THESE WOMEN WITH THE GOSPEL IF IT IS GOD'S WILL FOR ME TO DO SO. I APPLAUD THEM FOR THEIR STRENGTH, DEDICATION AND LOVE TOWARDS GOD AND THEIR FELLOW SISTERS AND BROTHERS IN THE LORD. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!!!!
Posted by: avril | January 07, 2008 at 08:29 PM
"For him, it is hard"
No doubt.
Posted by: Rob McMillin | January 07, 2008 at 09:36 PM
pitiful, stupid ,typical bacwardness and hipocrisy american way of christianity,feeling remorseful for enjoying pleasure,throw christianity and all religion alike where they deserve garbage and sewer
Posted by: chester | January 07, 2008 at 11:19 PM
What an incredible ministry !
In a positive biblical sense. Jesus ministered to the most decrepit of society.
Love this story !
Posted by: Lilia | January 08, 2008 at 12:32 AM
They maketh me long to lie down in green pastures, even if they have lost their minds.
Posted by: BWD | January 08, 2008 at 03:06 AM
Jesus died for every single one of those girls. Furthermore, God promises eternal life to everyone who believes in Jesus. And, He never breaks His promises. Never.
John 3:16 says it: For God so loved the world that He have His only Son that whoever believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.
Because Jesus paid for the gift of heaven on the Cross we can never pay for it ourselves— or pay Him back for it. He paid it all. We only believe His promise of eternal life. We have eternal life guaranteed the very second we believe His promise. We cannot earn it by good behavior or keep it by good behavior. No one behaves perfectly. Only Jesus did.
Why would anyone criticize these girls for wanting to communicate the message of God's perfect love?
Posted by: Pensamiento | January 08, 2008 at 06:10 AM
How about the troupe that does the "running-across-the-stage-and-breaking-a-4x4-beam-with-your-chest-for-Jesus" routine.
I was curious with Avril's note. Why all in caps? That means "shouting" online. A bit OTT. Ironically, when Avril says, "I don't want to go on, but..." she really means, "I do want to go on and on as long as I can".
The two girls are are doing any direct harm, I guess. At least they are honest about their past and other activities - more than can be said for many of the more self-righteous preachers and politicians proclaiming to be pure Christians while engaging male hookers.
Posted by: A.Mioozd | January 08, 2008 at 06:58 AM
Well,... Im not surprised by the complete hypocrisy found in the Christian community. Those who "Preach" acceptance and the the so called "Word of God" are in fact the the WORST offenders of hate, rejection and violence. The VERY fact they have any thoughts of rejecting those who seek redemption clearly states just how vial and poisoned the message of christians has become. ALL christians need to READ that bible of theirs. It's time to abolish religion and start uniting under ONE God for ALL..... period. Stop being judge and jury - it's not your job - it's God's job.
Posted by: David | January 08, 2008 at 07:32 AM
Kudos to Rob Mc Millin. Wit is in such short supply these days.
Posted by: Brad Cole | January 08, 2008 at 07:51 AM
Haha. Jesus' gals. Good work ladies. But you might want to lighten up on the eyeshadow. Just a bit.
Good gals. Lovely.
Posted by: Andrew Eppink | January 08, 2008 at 07:59 AM
Oops - typo in my post. I meant to say "the girls are not doing any direct harm".
And if it helps a few people who want out of the industry, all the better. As I said, at least they are honest and consistent.
Just one point, Jesus and his disciples never made money out of their ministry. In fact, what they did glean, they gave away. They were not real big on rich people.
I ponder this when I see people making (and keeping) fortunes out of spreading the word. So, for consistency and credibility of their work and message, I am hoping the bulk of profits from any book and video sales are going to help rehabilitate those they save.
Posted by: A.Mioozd | January 08, 2008 at 08:01 AM
God bless these beautiful women and their wonderful ministry!
Posted by: Sharon J. | January 08, 2008 at 08:10 AM
The story about the Christian Girls in Vegas pricked my interest (so to speak). They had the link to the documentary and I clicked on it... Oh my freak'n god. Not only is Heather Veitch super hot, but she was almost killed by other Christians. I can't believe that wasn't in the story. It seems her worst enemies are other Christians. Go figure. But an amazing doc. And its free playing at some online film fest. puusycatpreacher dot com.
Posted by: Ran Guu | January 08, 2008 at 08:13 AM
You gotto love these girls and their mission. But most of Christianity only gives lip service to love, hammers it home as a duty and thereby transforms it into hate: Hate of homosexuals, hate of other denominations and their peculiar views of God, hate of those, who don't fit their narrow judgement according to the views of their very selective interpretation of the bible. 150 years ago, they quoted the sections that justified slavery, then segregation and today it's discrimination against homosexuals that drives gay teens' suicide rate up tenfold compared to heterosexuals. If Jesus ever came back, he'd talk about the hypocritical Christian leaders the exact same way as he did about the Pharisees: Rot in hell! Achim.
Posted by: Achim Jung | January 08, 2008 at 08:54 AM
I have been to the Adult Entertainment Expo before and I met people from other groups that are doing similar work. I suppose it is a growth industry. I find them to be very nice people. Unfortunately, they are simply wrong. Not because of the "sins" that they committed in the past, but because God doesn't exist and Christianity is a very hostile worldview. As these girls can attest when they meet other Christians.
The Bible is full of violence and lots of horrible things. It is no wonder that Christians are much the same.
Think not that I am come to send peace of earth; I came not to send peace, but a sword.
- Matthew 10:34
Think about it!
Posted by: Iver Odegaard | January 08, 2008 at 09:00 AM
The thing I find most interesting about religion and some of these comments is that it draws out so many religion-bashers. I, for one, am not religious nor do I "have a relationship with God" but I find it slightly offensive when atheists, agnostics and otherwise secular people attack Christians for hating or discriminating. If we are to judge believers then who are we to say they cannot or should not judge anyone else? It gives atheists and non-believers a bad name to go on the offensive like this. I think the real story here is that a group of individuals took their life experiences and used them for a completely different purpose. That being said, I do enjoy some of the more witty comments...all's fair in love, war and comedy, I suppose.
Posted by: David | January 08, 2008 at 09:11 AM
The irony here is that many of these same Christians who might financially support missionaries overseas working to reach women trapped in sex trade (Thailand and elsewhere) are uncomfortable with the same ministry in their own church. Sad, really, in light of Jesus' own ministry. The church is suppose to be a battleship, perhaps a hospital ship, but NOT a cruise ship. These women's ministry to reach out to women involved in the sex industry is awesome. Note to commenter "avril" --- please use lower case letters: all caps is very hard to read - and it comes across like you're screeming.
Posted by: David in Los Angeles | January 08, 2008 at 09:15 AM
I am a Christian and I think this is absolutely wonderful. Good work ladies! You don't have to be snobby or a hypocrite to be a Christian, you just have to love the Lord and these two ladies are prime examples - showing people love who may not be receiving it from the general population... that's a real Christian!
Posted by: Christine | January 08, 2008 at 09:43 AM
David,
You may call my words "religion-bashing" but I just call it, telling the truth. I think it is way past time that us atheists (and other nonbelievers or whatever name one may give to oneself) speak up for ourselves and our views. I think it is high time that we expose religion as a sham and simply a way for one group of people to control another group of people. And I think it is also long overdue for us to say that people that believe in God (of any religion) are basically delusional. Think about it. If someone said that they believed in Santa Claus as an adult, we would question their sanity. But to believe in God is OK. Or if God tells you to preach the Gospel to hookers and strippers, that's one thing. But if He tells you to kill your family, it is another. And yes, it is. But the constant is that you are using an imaginary friend to dictate what you do in your life. I just think that as adults we need to give up our imaginary friends (gods included) and live in the real world.
If you would like to talk more or if anyone wants to send me hate mail: drop me a line - lefthandman00 [at] hotmail.com
Posted by: Iver Odegaard | January 08, 2008 at 09:47 AM
I do not think these two ladies dress unacceptably. Their mission is a respectable one given the adult entertainment industry can get pretty abusive. I am glad they are providing support for those who want it.
Posted by: Melody Watts | January 08, 2008 at 10:10 AM
>Think not that I am come to send peace of earth; I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Matthew 10:34
This is the reason I have a problem with people who try to interpret Jesus's words with no real understanding. Quoting this verse in light of one's bias against Christians is a cheap shot. Talk about an axe to grind.
For the real context folks, read the verses after. It is clear that Jesus is talking about what happens when a person ventures from the fold to become a Christian. Even people in your own house can end up hating you. It is this division that Jesus means when he talks about taking away peace. There is no threat of violence here.
Posted by: MoeInAmus | January 08, 2008 at 10:43 AM
This "ministry" is a bad mistake. You dont "reach" people by being like them, you reach them by being an example of something new and different.
They say that Christians are judgemental, but it sounds like two of a couple of immature people over-reacting to correction! Correction from more spiritually mature people no doubt who warned them.
>One Vegas topless bar allows Veitch to come at night to buy lap dances and use the time to talk to the dancers about Jesus.
These girls are being used for evil. Think about it folks, why would you, the owner of a bar whos income derives from stripping etc, allow people to come in and disrupt your business. If they love you this much, we have a problem! Think about it!!
Jesus's only words for evil is to "have nothing to do with it...and reprove them".
Even good Intentions are not the benchmark of righteousness, only God's words are.
Posted by: MoeInaMus | January 08, 2008 at 10:58 AM
The difference between these babes and Oral Roberts Jr. is that these babes are honest about it.
Posted by: DFC | January 08, 2008 at 11:09 AM
OK, so let me get this straight. If you meet a girl, buy her dinner and a show,etc. and then go have sex, that's fine. If you skip the middleman of the restaurant and theater (who are indirect pimps in some respects) and give her the cash instead and then go have sex, that's illegal and immoral. How hypocritical is that?
As a very straight-laced mother of two I know once asked, "What don't you like, the sex or the money?"
Seems to me that the problem here is not sex for money, but defining what a "sin" and "immoral" behavior really is, and then making the mistake of legislating it in the same manner as harmful behavior such as theft or murder. I fail to see what is so immoral about a voluntary private contract between two consenting adults, and I fail to see why that should be illegal so long as nobody outside that contract is directly harmed. This whole obsolete concept of "sin" and "blue" laws has got to go! Meanwhile, we have polirticians, some of which are being voted for today in New Hampshire, that are far more immoral than a streetwalker. How ironic!
These girls are to be commended for their dedication to their cause, but their cause itself is suspect. Cash, not belief, buys the groceries and pays the rent, and the girls they are trying to reach can make some very good money, which is why they do it.
Posted by: Somebody | January 08, 2008 at 12:00 PM
I could not have said it better, myself, Pensamiento. I only wish the religion bashers on this board would listen to your words and understand the sacrifice He made for everyone.
Posted by: Jeff | January 08, 2008 at 12:17 PM
David, I chalk some of the religion-bashers comments up to arrogance.
Religion may confer a preposterous cosmic significance upon the individual, but atheism is the true friend of egotism. It is one thing to suppose there is no divine power, the universe coming into being solely through natural forces; this might turn out to be correct. It's quite another to suppose God is impossible -- that nothing can possibly exist that is greater than a 21st-century pundit with a book to sell like Richard Dawkins. Pretty egotistical, huh?
Posted by: Jeff | January 08, 2008 at 12:21 PM
These girls are welcome to come over to my place any time they like and try to save me. I'm a hard sell, but if they really work at it....
Posted by: John Bard | January 08, 2008 at 12:38 PM
For the sake of not arguing, I will accept that Mary, Jesus’ mother was god’s concubine. Hooker’s for Jesus are following Mary’s example. It can’t be stated any more clear.
Posted by: Bill | January 08, 2008 at 01:08 PM
I think these ladies just have some things they want to get off their chests....... They are a blessing even to the heathen....
Posted by: jay Alderkamp | January 08, 2008 at 01:43 PM
I'm very pleased to hear of these two young ex-strippers who are Christians today and are evangelizing other women in their former business area. Who better to carry Christ's message to them? They will know best how to reach them, how to carry the message of Christ without being condescending. And, yes, it is one's job if one is a Christian to do what they are doing & not look down on others because of race, sex, sexual orientation, social class, job, age, lifestyle or anything else. Jesus dined with tax collectors, prostitutes, and other social outcasts. Why do some who claim to be his followers refuse to do the same today? I for one am proud of Heather and Annie for being true to Jesus Christ. Thanks, girls!
Posted by: Darlene | January 08, 2008 at 02:49 PM
If I woke up and found Heather in bed next to me, I'd think I'd gone to heaven too.
Posted by: OA | January 08, 2008 at 06:21 PM
If Jesus were walking this Earth now, he would set up in Vegas among the strippers, pimps, whores, theives, con artists, drunks and losers - and he would come in love and without judgment. Read the historical record (the Gospels) closely, and you'll see. I don't know the content of these women's message, but the fact that they are there is itself truly an imitation of Christ. The churches ought to get over it and help the Hookers for Jesus with their ministry in any way they can.
Posted by: T Makeig | January 08, 2008 at 06:46 PM
I'm not judgemental regarding these kind of things, but I do feel it is essential for people to have a spiritual life. Anyone who espouses their compassionate spirituality in a non-judgemental fashion should be applauded.
Posted by: Jon K. | January 08, 2008 at 07:33 PM
Iver,
It's not my Christian desire to send you "hate mail". And, I will not criticize you because you believe God does not exits, either. All I can share with you is what God's word says. "The fool hath said in his heart there is no God". Ps 14:1
Now Iver, the way I see it, if I am wrong and there is no God, I have lost nothing. But, if YOU are wrong, you have lost everything - including a chance for eternal life! That's a big chance to take isn't it?
Posted by: Curtis | January 08, 2008 at 08:22 PM
Great job ladies. Keep being a light for JESUS in a dark world that Jesus has called us to, to share the love of Jesus who desires to set people free from the bondage of sin.
To those "christians" or "churches" who have issues over their ministry, please examine your hearts to see if you have a religious spirit. Jesus was hardest on the pharisees so be careful to not be simple hearers of the word and not doers.
Know Jesus and make Him known in grace and truth.
Ken
www.MissionaryRoad.com
Posted by: Ken | January 08, 2008 at 08:47 PM
With a bit of charm and just the right amount of cash, either one of these ladies would be considered 'backsliders'.
Posted by: S.E. Karber | January 08, 2008 at 11:51 PM
When will there Be an Escort for Easter Bunnys or Strippers for Santa?
Aliens and Jesus have a lot in common, yet only one can claim tax exemption.
Good to know star trek fans and others can have something to do, religion is like any other hobby, except wars start over it and people kill others in the name of there fairy tale.
Posted by: Nedly Mandingo | January 09, 2008 at 12:16 AM
At least it seems more attractive than what the churches of the USA have to offer beyond the basics of most churches. Give me a break. Listening to them is less of a gamble than what else is available at Las Vegas.
Posted by: Tim Noritino | January 09, 2008 at 12:53 AM
The humblest shall be exalted. Methinks these young busty women are somewhat mixed up, but trying to do the right thing. Continuing to read "Romans" and immersing themselves in pursuit of total "Spirit" can put them on more solid ground. I have read about them, but am still not totally convinced of their sincerity.
Posted by: DLW | January 09, 2008 at 07:03 AM
Whom might the Highly paid news Director, that made the learned decision to actually publish this story, be? Why does the news industry continue to give attention to stories about people that are clearly morons? Can't they see that it only creates more moronic behavior? Must have been a really slow news cycle to scrape this crap off the news room floor.
Posted by: mllewis | January 09, 2008 at 07:20 AM
Avril : I totally agree and glad you posted this crucial point -- this fact is definitely made the Bible:
WHEN JESUS WALKED THIS EARTH HE WAS WITH THE PROSTITUTES, CROOKS AND DREGS OF SOCIETY FOR THE VERY PURPOSE OF BRINGING THEM TO THE LIGHT.
I applaud these women in their evangelistic efforts, reaching out to a part of society nearly all other Christians would not ever venture. I would rather see these "hookers" doing this this kind of evangelism, which is more effective, than see those so-called "Jesus Freaks" on every corner and street on the Strip proselytizing in peoples faces.
Posted by: vanessa | January 09, 2008 at 07:36 AM
God bless both of you! Thank God the judgmental Christians didn't stop you. Keep up the great work for Jesus!
Beverly Davis
SundayCosmetics.com
Posted by: Beverly Davis | January 09, 2008 at 08:30 AM
to the person that said, "if they believe in religion and are proven wrong then no biggie, but if there is a god and you don't believe you lost everything"
that is fine.. i agree that saying is true.. by that same notion, then God is the one that judges us all at judgement day, correct? even christians must agree to this...
if that is the case then its not your job and you shouldn't be judging people on earth, what?do you think you can do a better job than God in judging people christians? do you think you have the right or the audacity to say " i'm going to judge that person as being bad and make them do this orthat or believe bc i say so i'm the judge to say they will be damned or not".. do you really think you have better judgement then your own God?..
if so then you are even more egotistical than an athiest as you say, bc now you are saying "i believe in a God that judges us all.. but wait a minute, i can judge you better than him bc i say so"..
Posted by: jay | January 09, 2008 at 08:59 AM
Beverly Davis: You disgust me. $100 bottles of nail polish? Using religion to sell overpriced cosmetics? The names of your products alone make me want to vomit: Testify (berry red), Avoid Negative People (chocolate brown), Hallelujah! (iridescent blue ), Carefully Choose Friends (bronze brown).
I'm sure God is really proud of your pursuits of greed and vanity!
Posted by: Sarah | January 09, 2008 at 09:29 AM
This is exactly the field of work Christ called us to work within.
He came for sinners, not the good.
Great work ladies!
Posted by: David H. Lukenbill | January 09, 2008 at 09:30 AM
Disgusting.
Posted by: Hilary | January 09, 2008 at 09:40 AM
I would like to know if the people who are so against this ministry would like it if their children became strippers, porn stars or prostitutes? Would they enjoy having their spouses spend up their family's money at a strip joint? Would they want a strip club or a house of prostituion in their neighborhood? I don't think so. Christians are not the only ones that have problems with the sex industry. These young ladies are just using Christianity as well as their beauty and experience in the field to encourage other women to get out of what is a dirty and dangerous business. God bless them both!
Posted by: Sharon J. | January 09, 2008 at 09:50 AM
Some how one of your racist dudes gonna blame this on immigrants...Just like the housing market...
Posted by: JR1984 | January 09, 2008 at 10:06 AM
One word sums this up? Hook. These women couldn't make it in the adult world and so they tried to make it in the Christian world, just like failed rock stars try gospel.
It's all about money. There are not interested in saving souls, they are interested in greenbacks, and have found a great hook.
What next? BDSM fans for Christ? They already have a Christian rap group called Gangstas for Christ.
Posted by: Manny | January 09, 2008 at 10:53 AM
I am a newly born-again chrisitian who has been experiencing Unbelievable blessing from God.
I used to analyze "Hypocrite Christians" on famous gay website,tried to become a chrisitian over last 30years.
May 2007, God reached out to me. Per my pastor, God must reach you first, in order to become a christian. I now get to believe in this theory.
I was in the situation no human could have helped me, in the wake of opening SF Grand Jury. But with God's help, David beats Goliath's threat.
yes, i am a bisexual queer,and yes, I am now a christian,and yes, GOD IS REAL and Homosexuality is real.
Our Evangelical Marketing got rottent thru Catholic Priests' abuse of God/Bible, Ted Haggard and Jim Baker are also those examples.
These two Las Vegas preaches real evangelicals !
Yes, i been there and done that(Homosexual sex perverting...),but Bible is not about Anti-gay.
Christians must be born-again, in their personal life,and practicing/interpreting the Bible. Christianity is not "all or none" religion.
Anyone who believes in God and can benefit from the Bible, and willing to serve the God up to his/her capacity is OK ,by my christianity.
yamio
ceo
www.permaID.com
Next Generation of Email System
Posted by: yamio | January 09, 2008 at 11:01 AM
Asking Jesus to be the Lord of your life is the MOST IMPORTANT thing a person can do in his or her life, God doesn't care what you have done or where you have been. He loves us all. Eternity in paradise with the Lord is the reward for those who believe.
So the next time the devil reminds you of your past- you remind him of his future!
May God Bless the dancers and their ministry.
Posted by: Jim M. | January 09, 2008 at 11:11 AM
Hey Curtis,
"Now Iver, the way I see it, if I am wrong and there is no God, I have lost nothing. But, if YOU are wrong, you have lost everything - including a chance for eternal life! That's a big chance to take isn't it"?
You sound so mad! Just let him be, if he lost a chance for eternal life by not believing in God, it's not your problem. If you'd get a chance for eternal life, WE want to see you there.
God is the only rightful judge. And you don't really know what's in Iver's heart. :)
Posted by: samantha | January 09, 2008 at 11:50 AM
I'm glad that these women are offering a type of comfort in a lifestyle that is more often than not violent and sad. But - I always have to ask - are there any resources for those who don't believe in God or aren't into that whole religion thing?
Posted by: powlita | January 09, 2008 at 12:09 PM
This is so wrong in so many ways.
Posted by: slinkybender | January 09, 2008 at 07:28 PM
I hope that everyone, believers and nonbelievers alike take just a moment to ponder this one point. Jesus said the GREATEST commandment is this... That you LOVE one another as I have loved you. OK whether you believe He was the Christ or not, it is still one heck of a guidline to apply to life. Love to the point of selflessness! Stop with the judging and the bashing, isn't the world miserable enough because of it? Start showing kindness to everyone, even of you don't agree with them!! I DARE YOU ALL to try THIS for a week... what have you got to lose, except maybe a few bad feelings???
Posted by: Lance | January 10, 2008 at 12:06 AM
Unbelievable hostility towards Christians in some of these posts. We're all full of hate, judgementalism, hypocrisy. What an ironic statement that is, since you who say this crap are doing precisely the same thing: judging and hating.
Homosexuality is sin. PERIOD. That doesn't mean I think God hates homosexuals. He doesn't hate them any more than He hates me for my sins. Where you folks get the idea that disapproval of a personal behavior equals hate is a thoughtless mental leap.
And David, all people uniting under "one god" is a pie-in-the-sky idea. Jesus said that He was the way, the truth and the life; no one goes to the Father except through Him. All other gods, all other religions are false. And I have to believe that His resurrection validates His claims.
Now many here will say I'm narrow-minded and full of hate. And they'll do so salivating with, um, hatred towards me and pompously look down on me. But my previous statement to Jesus' exclusivity to the claim of being God does not equate to hatred or religious bigotry. This is no more about intolerance than a Republican and a Democrat having a disagreement about foreign policy. Both have different views, in some cases drastically different. But does that mean that they don't or can not respect one another's right to disagree and still get along? Of course not. That's called freedom of thought. It's a concept some of the so-called enlightened ones here seem to have forgotten.
The churches who reject these women may do so because they need a spiritual butt-kicking from the Holy Spirit. Or maybe the pastors feel that they'd be a distraction to the men in the church -- which they most certainly would be. We ain't perfect. We screw up. Sometimes we try to be TOO righteous or we have inner insecurities that manifest themselves in uncomfortable ways. But to say that all Christians are ignorant or hateful or just plain need to change to accommodate you is the ultimate in arrogance -- and intolerance.
BTW... these women are great. I praise and thank God for their turnaround and their ministry.
Posted by: Keith Yakouboff | January 10, 2008 at 01:14 AM
JR1984... how on earth did you turn this into a story about immigration? By the way, I think you're confusing immigrants with illegal aliens. You should probably take that distinction more seriously.
And then there's Manny's theory that it's all about money. Okay Manny.
I'm waiting now for the UFO theory or the GWBush-is-controlling-us-all theory.
Posted by: Babbles | January 10, 2008 at 01:20 AM
Chester wrote:
>> pitiful, stupid ,typical bacwardness and hipocrisy american way of christianity,feeling remorseful for enjoying pleasure,throw christianity and all religion alike where they deserve garbage and sewer <<
Now THIS is a perfect example of the tolerance of the enlightened secular community. Way to go Chester! Yayyy!!
For the record my naive little Chest, my Christian wife and I enjoy sex with each other the way the Christian God intended: with excruciating pleasure. I'd suggest that you learn the difference between your conceptions of the Christian God and the truth about Him, but you know it all already and are too full of anti-Christian bigotry to actually have an open mind.
And for all you Christophobes out there who confuse American Christians with al Qaeda, name one atheistic charity.
Posted by: Manly | January 10, 2008 at 01:31 AM
@ Keith Yakouboff
"Jesus said that He was the way, the truth and the life; no one goes to the Father except through Him. All other gods, all other religions are false."
Indeed. However, Jews do not recognize Jesus as anything more than a prophet. They still hold to the covenant made betwen them and Jahweh. Mohammed said that Allah named him as His final prophet, dictated the Qur'an to him, and gave him the task of spreading the Qur'an and restoring faith in Allah around the world, which had been weakened by humans who had diluted the messages of the Torah and the Bible. And finally, the Mormons believe that Joseph Smith, Jr, was the most recent prophet of Jesus, charged with restoring Christianity.
How can you reconcile these things? Surely not all can be right - that would cause a paradox. And you cannot know that you are right and the others are wrong. All three believe in the same deity, so it's not like the others are heathens. And this doesn't take into account the other major (and minor) faiths of the world - Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Shinto....
----
What I fail to understand is how religious folks *can't* (or won't) understand why many people look upon them and their faiths with skepticism and scorn. Just about every religion that the world has ever known has been used (and likely is still used) as a justification for violence, rape, murder, thievery, torture, bigotry, racism, sexism, homophobia, ignorance, etc. ad nauseum. This isn't news, but nobody in the religious community cares to do anything about it. They just keep beating their drums - "we're right, everyone else is wrong, and if you don't agree you're going to hell!" Doesn't anybody see the problem here?
----
I leave you all with two messages:
1. Embrace the one true faith: the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, at venganza.org.
2. Forget John 3:16. What you should live by is Austin 3:16. "I just whooped your ass!"
Posted by: Spekkio | January 10, 2008 at 03:24 AM
The Bible teaches to hate the sin but not the sinner. This means that we are not only to love the two women who are trying to reach others for Christ, but that we love all those they are trying to reach. That also means that we love all of the negative commentators on Christianity that have posted on this board even when they show much more hate in their comments than anyone else here. If you read all of the above comments, which ones show the most intolerance and hatred? It is NOT the postings by Christians. But you can decide for yourself.
God's existence is most validated by the hatred directed at those who believe. If God did not exist, then why would they (the non-believers) be working so hard against Him? It would simply be a non-issue.
Those who do not understand Christianity and a relationship with Jesus Christ will never (in their present set of beliefs) understand that when one has truly come to a knowledge of God through His Son, Jesus, that person will never again embrace the hopelessness of a non-believer.
Posted by: Ellen M. | January 10, 2008 at 07:46 AM
Christians trying to force their feeble beliefs on others? Who would have thought.
Not all christians are bad. It is, of course, a very huge majority. They think they are much better than everyone else.
BTW...non-believers are not working against God (assuming that a God makes any sense whatsoever)...they are working hard against the morons that try to push religion on everyone else. Personally I don't care what anyone believes as long as they keep it to themselves. Maybe, just maybe, everyone does not share your beliefs. But that, in itself, is the problem with most christians...they think absolutely everyone should be little christian clones.
What a concept...thinking for yourself.
(PS: This whole "going to Hell" thing really has be concerned....and I believe in Santa. Right)
Posted by: steve m. | January 11, 2008 at 12:59 PM
I am a young Christian woman who believes that we all need to reserve judgment. The bigotry against religious folks and Christianity in particular that I see on this blog is heartbreaking. To those who are critical, I ask: What have you done to help others? Why are you criticizing Christians who are trying to reach out to hurting people? Those who would criticize others - who are obviously trying to do good - have always perlplexed me. Please open your eyes and hearts to the reality that these Christians are trying to make a positive difference in this world. Real Christians love humankind. These girls are Christian missionaries - regardless of whether some may disagree with their methods - who may be the only ray of hope in these other lost, young girls' lives. Most women in the entertainment industry have little or no support from family and are prey for evil people who would dehumanize and exploit them for profit. These two young ladies are trying to use their past pain to help other young women find a way out of the exploitation. This ministry is BADLY needed and way overdue.
Posted by: JP | January 14, 2008 at 01:29 PM
I think everyone should believe what they want, but I don't think that just because religion is brought into the picture everything that was done prior had to be a sin. Good luck girls.
Posted by: Jessica | May 13, 2008 at 09:01 AM